Post by TheCloakOfHair on Apr 11, 2004 14:16:25 GMT -5
This is a debate, for christians, about the subject “Good Friday”, now some people, well, most people think that Christ died on a Friday, which is untrue. The reasons posted below are taken from Dave Hunt’s book “How Close Are We?”. This is the 16th chapter of Dave’s very good book.
Please do not post anything against my believing that Christ actually died on Thursday unless you have read all of this post(s) And people, please do read this, and you will find that I actually am correct in saying that Christ died on Thursday… Now don’t go saying “Well that’s just cuz you got the evidence from that book” because I, was taught (as in told) that Christ died on a Thursday, and you were taught (as in told) that Christ died on a Friday. Hopefully this will help you understand better. Thank you.
Now before the feast of the Passover…supper being ended…the Jews, therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day (for that sabbath day was an high day) – (John 13:1,2; 19:31).
As it began to dawn toward the first day of the week…there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord…rolled back the stone from the door [of the sepulcher] and sat upon it (Matthew 28:1,2).
Read superficially, the Scripture account of those important day from Nisan 10-14 seems to contradict itself. Unless one has a clear understanding of events, Matthew, Mark, and Luke seem to indicate that Christ kept the Passover that last night with His disciples:
Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the Passover. And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the Passover at thy house with my disciples. And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the Passover. Now when the even time was come, he sat down with the twelve” (Matthew 26:17-20; Mark 14:12-17, Luke 22:7-15).
Of course, if Christ and His disciples kept the Passover the night of His betrayal and arrest, then the Passover lamb must already been slain that afternoon. If that were the case, then His death the following afternoon did not coincide with the killing of the Passover lambs. Yet we know it had to, and it did.
The verses above need some explanation. For example, “evening” sometimes means late afternoon and at other times it means early night. And as we have already mentioned and explain late in more detail, although the Feast of Unleavened Bread began on Nisan 15 when the Passover lamb was eaten, Nisan 14, when the Passover was prepared and the lamb slain was also a time of unleavened bread.
Verses which are not clear need to be understood in harmony with those which are clear. And we do have many very plain statements that the Passover lambs were slain the afternoon following the “last supper” and at the time of the crucifixion. All of the Gospels agree in this regard.
When Was the “Last Supper” and the Crucifixion.
Mark says, “Now when the even [i.e., sunset was approaching] was come [after Christ had died], because it was the preparation [of the Passover lamb], that is, the day before the sabbath [the first day of the Freat of Unleavened Bread, which began at sunset after the Passover lamb had been slain], Joseph of Arimathaea…went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus” (15:42,43). Luke agrees: “and that day was the preparation, and the [special] sabbath drew on” (23:54). John gives even more detail:
Then led they [the rabbis] Jesus from Caiaphas unto the [Roman] hall of judgement…and they themselves went not into the judgement hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the Passover [so it hadn’t been eaten yet]. And it was the preparation of the Passover….The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day (for that sabbath day was a high day [i.e., the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread]), besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away (John 18:28; 19:14,31)
So, as we noted in the last chapter, the Passover lambs were indeed being slain at the very time that Christ, the Lamb of God who fulfilled all of the relevant Old testament types and prophecies, died on the cross. How, then, could Christ have “taken the Passover” with His disciples the night before? He didn’t. The Last Supper did indeed occur the night before the crucifixion, but it was not the Passover. This often overlooked fact is clear from John’s account, which is a bit more precise.
While the other gospels refer to “the sabbath” drawing nigh, John alone explains that the sabbath which began at sunset the day Christ was crucified “was a high day.” In other words, it was not the ordinary weekly sabbath which always began Friday at sunset. It was, in fact, the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (the 15th of Nisan), of which the first and last days were special sabbaths during which no work was to be done (Exodus 12:14-16).
John also clarifies the fact that the “last supper” was not the Passover: “Now before the feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come…supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot…to betray him.” So the “last supper” actually took place the night before the Passover. How could it have taken place both “the first day of unleavened bread” and “before the feast of the Passover”?
Although technically the Feast of Unleavened Bread began with the fifteenth of Nisan after sunset of the fourteenth (the Passover lamb was slain just before sunset, roasted, and eaten that night), the days of unleavened bread were also counted from the fourteenth of Nisan because the eating of unleavened bread began “on the fourteenth day of the month at evening” (Exodus 12:18). Though they were two separate feasts, the Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread were treated as one inasmuch as they overlapped. The Passover lamb, though “prepared” (i.e., slain and the roasting process begun) just before sunset on the fourteenth, was not eaten until that night, which was then the fifteenth.
What day of the week was Nisan 14? While we refer to Nisan 10 as Sunday, it began on Saturday after sunset when the sabbath ended. Remember, the Jewish day begins at sunset. Thus Nisan 11 began at sunset Sunday, the twelfth Monday, the thirteenth Tuesday, and Nisan 14, the day of preparation, began Wednesday at sunset. The “last supper,” then, took place Wednesday night, the beginning of Nisan 14, which was called the day of preparation. The following afternoon, in the “evening” of Nisan 14, the Passover lambs were slain shortly before sunset. Christ was on the cross and “gave up the ghost” at the same time that Thursday afternoon.
Thursday? Not “Good Friday”? Indeed not. A Friday crucifixion doesn’t fit the facts. Not only the prophecies but the Old Testament types as well had to be fulfilled. One of those types was known as “the sign of the prophet Jonas [Jonah].” It required Jesus to be in the grave “three days, and three nights.”
Obviously the next one is “Three Days and Three Nights”… I might post that later…
But that is all for now, oh, and by the way, there is about 4/5ths more, but I’ll spare you… And if that alone didn’t convince you, then you must have a pretty strong will... And if your will is strong, don’t think THAT is all I got. Oh no, I have much more. 4 more of that length I might add… I’m guessing this post might end the debate… Sigh… Oh well, its not like it would be more enjoy able breaking it up and giving you guys more posts! Hope to see what you have against that!
~TheCloakOfHair (Dave Hunt too…Lol)
Please do not post anything against my believing that Christ actually died on Thursday unless you have read all of this post(s) And people, please do read this, and you will find that I actually am correct in saying that Christ died on Thursday… Now don’t go saying “Well that’s just cuz you got the evidence from that book” because I, was taught (as in told) that Christ died on a Thursday, and you were taught (as in told) that Christ died on a Friday. Hopefully this will help you understand better. Thank you.
Now before the feast of the Passover…supper being ended…the Jews, therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day (for that sabbath day was an high day) – (John 13:1,2; 19:31).
As it began to dawn toward the first day of the week…there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord…rolled back the stone from the door [of the sepulcher] and sat upon it (Matthew 28:1,2).
Read superficially, the Scripture account of those important day from Nisan 10-14 seems to contradict itself. Unless one has a clear understanding of events, Matthew, Mark, and Luke seem to indicate that Christ kept the Passover that last night with His disciples:
Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the Passover. And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the Passover at thy house with my disciples. And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the Passover. Now when the even time was come, he sat down with the twelve” (Matthew 26:17-20; Mark 14:12-17, Luke 22:7-15).
Of course, if Christ and His disciples kept the Passover the night of His betrayal and arrest, then the Passover lamb must already been slain that afternoon. If that were the case, then His death the following afternoon did not coincide with the killing of the Passover lambs. Yet we know it had to, and it did.
The verses above need some explanation. For example, “evening” sometimes means late afternoon and at other times it means early night. And as we have already mentioned and explain late in more detail, although the Feast of Unleavened Bread began on Nisan 15 when the Passover lamb was eaten, Nisan 14, when the Passover was prepared and the lamb slain was also a time of unleavened bread.
Verses which are not clear need to be understood in harmony with those which are clear. And we do have many very plain statements that the Passover lambs were slain the afternoon following the “last supper” and at the time of the crucifixion. All of the Gospels agree in this regard.
When Was the “Last Supper” and the Crucifixion.
Mark says, “Now when the even [i.e., sunset was approaching] was come [after Christ had died], because it was the preparation [of the Passover lamb], that is, the day before the sabbath [the first day of the Freat of Unleavened Bread, which began at sunset after the Passover lamb had been slain], Joseph of Arimathaea…went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus” (15:42,43). Luke agrees: “and that day was the preparation, and the [special] sabbath drew on” (23:54). John gives even more detail:
Then led they [the rabbis] Jesus from Caiaphas unto the [Roman] hall of judgement…and they themselves went not into the judgement hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the Passover [so it hadn’t been eaten yet]. And it was the preparation of the Passover….The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day (for that sabbath day was a high day [i.e., the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread]), besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away (John 18:28; 19:14,31)
So, as we noted in the last chapter, the Passover lambs were indeed being slain at the very time that Christ, the Lamb of God who fulfilled all of the relevant Old testament types and prophecies, died on the cross. How, then, could Christ have “taken the Passover” with His disciples the night before? He didn’t. The Last Supper did indeed occur the night before the crucifixion, but it was not the Passover. This often overlooked fact is clear from John’s account, which is a bit more precise.
While the other gospels refer to “the sabbath” drawing nigh, John alone explains that the sabbath which began at sunset the day Christ was crucified “was a high day.” In other words, it was not the ordinary weekly sabbath which always began Friday at sunset. It was, in fact, the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (the 15th of Nisan), of which the first and last days were special sabbaths during which no work was to be done (Exodus 12:14-16).
John also clarifies the fact that the “last supper” was not the Passover: “Now before the feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come…supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot…to betray him.” So the “last supper” actually took place the night before the Passover. How could it have taken place both “the first day of unleavened bread” and “before the feast of the Passover”?
Although technically the Feast of Unleavened Bread began with the fifteenth of Nisan after sunset of the fourteenth (the Passover lamb was slain just before sunset, roasted, and eaten that night), the days of unleavened bread were also counted from the fourteenth of Nisan because the eating of unleavened bread began “on the fourteenth day of the month at evening” (Exodus 12:18). Though they were two separate feasts, the Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread were treated as one inasmuch as they overlapped. The Passover lamb, though “prepared” (i.e., slain and the roasting process begun) just before sunset on the fourteenth, was not eaten until that night, which was then the fifteenth.
What day of the week was Nisan 14? While we refer to Nisan 10 as Sunday, it began on Saturday after sunset when the sabbath ended. Remember, the Jewish day begins at sunset. Thus Nisan 11 began at sunset Sunday, the twelfth Monday, the thirteenth Tuesday, and Nisan 14, the day of preparation, began Wednesday at sunset. The “last supper,” then, took place Wednesday night, the beginning of Nisan 14, which was called the day of preparation. The following afternoon, in the “evening” of Nisan 14, the Passover lambs were slain shortly before sunset. Christ was on the cross and “gave up the ghost” at the same time that Thursday afternoon.
Thursday? Not “Good Friday”? Indeed not. A Friday crucifixion doesn’t fit the facts. Not only the prophecies but the Old Testament types as well had to be fulfilled. One of those types was known as “the sign of the prophet Jonas [Jonah].” It required Jesus to be in the grave “three days, and three nights.”
Obviously the next one is “Three Days and Three Nights”… I might post that later…
But that is all for now, oh, and by the way, there is about 4/5ths more, but I’ll spare you… And if that alone didn’t convince you, then you must have a pretty strong will... And if your will is strong, don’t think THAT is all I got. Oh no, I have much more. 4 more of that length I might add… I’m guessing this post might end the debate… Sigh… Oh well, its not like it would be more enjoy able breaking it up and giving you guys more posts! Hope to see what you have against that!
~TheCloakOfHair (Dave Hunt too…Lol)